[LOCKED] Streamlining the Guild - May 2014

Hello Braves!

With our glorious return from Pandaria, I'd like to take the following weeks to examine the guild. What works well? What doesn't work well? And I'd like everyone's input. This is our guild, after all!

I want to re-write the guild information and in doing so make it clearer to everyone both inside and outside the guild what the band is all about.

This thread will be a bit of a mess, a collection of thoughts from which something clear has yet to crystallize. Brainstorm with me!

First off - A message.

erwtenpeller wrote:I've been thinking about something Helmut said, or rather, did. He treated the taxation of the Band of the Brave as the taxation of the whole, rather then the individuals. My idea of the Band of the Brave has always been for it to be a collective of individual professionals, an Adventurer's Union, and Theadore always emphasises this in-character.

I got to thinking, and I realized my out-of-character behavior has been contrary to that core belief. I've told people to stop role-playing in Stormwind and join the band where they are, but if they are supposed to all be individuals in charge of their own destiny, why would I do that? I did it because I got agitated because people did not like my content, that's why. And that was selfish, and wrong. If someone has Luverne on contact please pass on this message, I know she was directly effected by this.

Secondly - An examination of the current ranks.

It's been bugging me that I have no way of rewarding long-standing and contributing members. The best way I can think of doing that is to create more ranks, but I don't want to turn this into a military style guild where only the top dawgs have a say in matters.

So I'm thinking about overhauling the rank system to create additional ranks, but have them act more as rewards for contributions to the guild then as commanding ranks. I'd like to present the guild more as an adventurer's union, where adventurers come together to share their expertise with each-other and team up for "group quests".

Higher ranked character's main role would be to teach the lower ranks the ropes of adventuring. Progression is based on contributions to the guild, mainly in-character, but out-of-character contributions will not be ignored.

Perhaps something like:

• Unguilded: Characters who are not in the guild IC.
  Perks: Can use Guild Chat, gets Guild Perks.
  
• Layman: Characters who are new to the adventuring game - Starting rank. The only rank in which individual choice is limited.
  Perks: Gets to be an adventurer one day. Huzzah!
  
• Adventurer: Characters who have earned their stripes and are allowed to go about their adventuring buisiness as they please.
  Perks: Can post events on the calendar, Can invite new Laymen.
  
• Journeyman: Adventurers who have consitently participated in events and role-play for a longer period of time.
  Perks: Can promote Laymen to Adventurer, can demote as a disciplinary measure.
  
• Dungeon Master: Adventurers and Journeymen who are not only participants, but have played an active role in creating content and role-play. If that be creating role-playing events, taking it on themselves to keep the bar running, Organizing raid or pvp nights. If you've worked hard to contribute to the guild in any way, this rank is for you.
  A Dungeon Master can be demoted back to a Journeyman due to inactivity. It is the only rank that requires an active upkeep!
  Perks: Can kick. Guild Bank access - Pretty much everything.
  
• Guild Master: The Big Boss.
  Perks: All of the perks. All of them.
  

The current Champion and Founding Member ranks will stay as they are.

Events & Campaigns.

Some notes:

• Be an active part of the server community, participate in server events, create role-play with other guilds, etc.
  
• No more long campaigns for a while. Focus on shorter, more compact adventures with a clear goal.
  
• Not ever should anyone be discouraged from taking initiative in role-play, creating or improvising events or engaging story-lines.
  

Guild Base!

A lot of us are interested in taking up residence in Lakeshire. Do we want to move all our guild activity there? Do we want to keep the Pig & Whistle as our regular hangout as well? Currently, I'm thinking we keep the Pig & Whistle as a main hubb to have an active presence in Stormwind, and "rent" one or a few buildings in Lakeshire to use as a retreat for meetings, artisan work, and just generally some time away from the city.

The new ranks are a good idea, which is my opinion. As for the shorter events that will be taking place, I do have a few planned out and ready. Since i sadly have not been active during the last few weeks of Pandaria. And i completely agree with you on keeping the Pig & Whistle and also using Lakeshire for meetings would be good, as that is where one my future events is planned. In Redridge.

Speaking of events, mine is up, check the calendar and forum.

Hmm IM realy likiung the idea of the dungeon master rank.. Not sure about changing the braveheart and greenhorn ranks thow.. I feel they should remain unchanged, mabie what we need is an "outsider rank" mabie for thosw who prefer to remain in sw or something

I am reading your replies, but I'll refrain from commenting further until there's been some more feedback, and I had some more time to mull it over.

Maybe a way for some rewards, not nescessarily IC is setting a monthly guild challenge.
These challenges are often created for completing an guild archievement (like the x amount of critter one, can't remember the exact name).
So lets say we take the critter killer archievement as monthly challenge, the player whom contributed the most gets an reward (perhaps also an use for guild from the guild bank if it is high) or just the honor from ''winning'' the monthly challenge.
It's an concept I think can bring something else, but I don't know how others perhaps thing about this.

I want to reward people for what they are already doing, not create additional challenges for them, especially not out-of-character ones.

But...! A monthly contest of sorts could definitely be a fun idea!

A few of my thoughts on the new ranks;

• The proposed ranks do not quite have the same fun and imaginative names as the current ones.
• Although there is something to be said for names that describe the role of that person (such as Dungeon master), I believe there is still room for names that fit more in the quirky and adventurous nature of the guild.
• I feel that the term 'Braveheart' has gotten a lot of meaning in the guild IC. I'd definitely want to keep it!
• The rank 'Greenhorn' has the same quirkiness, but it's not used IC as often. Maybe because it feels rather unflattering, whereas it should be a rank for aspiring adventurers.


With that in mind, here are some suggestions for the names of the new ranks;

Unguilded / Tavern Goer / Acquaintance
The entry rank, Tavern Goer at the moment... It seems to mostly see use for alts and such. Not everyone seems to go to the tavern, so perhaps Acquaintance is more fitting?

Layman / Greenhorn / Fledgling
Layman implies someone not introduced or skilled in the field. Greenhorn or Fledgling imply someone new to a field, in training, but not very good yet. A trainee. Perhaps Fledgling carries a better connotation with it? A bird about to fly from the nest?

Journeyman / Adventurer
Should probably be something in line with the rest. I've got nothing at the moment!

Braveheart
The classic Band rank, as far as I'm concerned. A badge of honour!

Pathfinder / Trailblazer / Pioneer / Dungeon Master
Various suggestions for the 'Dungeon Master' rank. It feels a bit too meta to call someone a dungeon master. We may explore dungeons a bunch, but that's not all the events we organise. Why would we call someone who organises a bunch of hunts in jungles a 'Dungeon Master'. Whereas something like 'Trailblazer' indicates someone who leads the Band unto exciting new ground, be it dungeons, jungles, or real estate.

Glorious Leader / Leading Light
Glorious leader is a silly name for a rank. But it's also awesome. Whoever leads the band should probably grant themselves whatever hyperbolic greatness they find fitting. When looking for synonyms for 'Leader' I found 'Leading Light'. Just a random thought that seemed fitting for Wellsworth.

Those are some valuable insights, Rin!

I'm fine with the new ranks, it's a nice change, adds a bit more progression, though, the names that Erwt pitched, I'm not so sure on.
I like the sound of Greenhorn>Adventurer>Braveheart, or something like that, going off of Rinoi's comment. It keeps to the style of the guild, IMO.

Thank you for your continued feedback.

It think two directions are emerging for naming ranks.

One direction is more poetic. It focuses on imagery of heroism, giving off a very story-book sort of vibe and making the band of the brave feel like a bard's tale. The progression here implies increased levels of Heroism and Valor.

Stranger > Greenhorn > Braveheart > Lionheart > Dragonheart > Glorious Leader

A second direction to take would be that of the craftsman. It makes the Band of the Brave feel more like a Guild in the medieval sense, a union of artisans. Ranks indicate a measure of Competence and Experience. It makes the guild feel more professional.

Unguilded > Layman > Adventurer > Journeyman > Taskmaster > Guild Leader

I think both sets of titles work out, which one to chose depends on the direction we want to go in.
Basically:

Do we want the guild to feel like A fantastical bard's tale or an adventurer's union?

erwtenpeller wrote:One direction is more poetic. It focuses on imagery of heroism, giving off a very story-book sort of vibe and making the band of the brave feel like a bard's tale. The progression here implies increased levels of Heroism and Valor.

Stranger > Greenhorn > Braveheart > Lionheart > Dragonheart > Glorious Leader

If my previous post didn't give away my answer. ^ This.

I am with Kysah on this

Behold my marginal opinions!

What I understood from previous discussions is that the guild doesn't want to go down the military path. I feel that the 'guild' approach would head in that direction. After all, these kind of structures/systems are created to establish a clear, bureaucratic layout of a well organised cooperation. When I think of a collection of 'random' adventurers, I don't see why such a professional system is needed. I feel that the 'poetic' approach does the overal guild atmosphere and setting more justice. Looking at a clear, purely hierarchal ladder might not be so necessary.

Next to that, as an idea for something that could 'fill in' certain ranks/roles, perhaps 'apprenticeship' or 'mentors' could be an idea? Basically what happens on certain schools, where a senior gets a freshmen under his/her wing for a period of time. It could create fun roleplay, give new members a contactperson and basically at least one person you can always talk to/rely on (or can you?). This would be mostly IC. The mentor could also be responsible for the action of the newbie. This means that if someone doesn't really like a certain mentor, you could mess around with his/her apprentice to get him/her into shit. Just something that could create some room for interaction.

Just a couple of thoughts from my side. I'll post more if I think of more.

Edit!: "Wow Shapur, talking about contradicting yourself! Don't go in the guild direction, but how about this feature from traditional guilds!" Of course there's no need for someone to actually be 'trained' or guided in this guild setting. I think I ment it more as someone who will show you around and introduce you to everything and everyone. "This here is Charlie, he's probably going to get you killed sooner or later. That Kysah, she's a heretic, don't come close to her." Etc etc.

A fantastical bard's tale deffo this

I think it would be better if all Bravehearts looked after all greenhorns in a tutorly fashion. The problem with appointing specific pairs is that you are then dependent on that other person logging in for your mentoring.

I'm playing with the idea of making a greenhorn go through some kind of trial or test to become a braveheart. It'll generate a lot of role-play, and it'll make a promotion feel a lot more meaningful if there's something attached to it they have to work for. Something to look back on too, and talk to greenhorns about. "I remember when I took my tial, well well, it was quite the thing!".

Another though that crossed my mind was to give out badges of valor for heroic behavior and showing initiative. Three badges of valor = rank up.

Just brainstorming and tossing ideas around.

Poetic way is best way.

Theadore has started working on some the official "Brave" guidelines - A set of qualities an aspiring adventurer must meet in order to be a Braveheart.

The qualities an Adventurer must poses to become a Braveheart.

Brave.
A Braveheart must be brave. They must be willing, nay, eager to face danger and overcome challenge. The Adventurer's creed is to go where none else dare tread, to explore what still remains a mystery. To defeat threats to the alliance no other group can face.
* OOC: Above to be taken lightly. There are many ways to be brave.

Responsible.
A Braveheart is responsible for their own actions. If they get into trouble with the law, it is their own fault unless proven otherwise. If a fellow Brave is injured due to another Brave's equipment, spellcraft or other, it is the fault of the owner of the equipment or spellcraft's negligence, unless proven otherwise. A Braveheart admits to their mistakes, and strives to improve on them!
* OOC: Band membership does not provide immunity to Stormwind Law.

Helpful.
A Braveheart is helpful to their peers. They are always ready to lend them a hand, be it through partaking in a great adventure, by crafting them equipment or looking after their mighty steeds when they are ill.
* OOC: Role-playing with fellow members of the guild will get you ahead faster.
* OOC: The persistent of course or offensive language will not be tolerated, in- our out-of-character.

Experienced.
A Braveheart knows how hold their own in battle. They are ready to answer the call to adventure to any region of the known worlds.
* OOC: A Braveheart must be level 90.

Prepared.
A Braveheart is always prepared to go on an Adventure, or defend themselves. They keep their own gear in good, fighting shape, and they make sure they have a use-able mount at all times, be it a steed, a spell or a contraption.
* OOC: A Braveheart must have a mount, and their best set of gear transmogged for use in Role-Play in Contested Territory.

Funny you should mention a test for the greenhorns. I did have an idea i wanted to talk to you about, which was a test fro the Greenhorns, but where only one would come out as a Braveheart. Leaving the others to try again next time. But then again, it may not be a good idea, as some of the Greenhorns that would not win, could be the ones that deserve it the most. Making it kinda unfair. But just opinions XD

Unfortunately your own argument already proves that as something very impractical. Promotion to braveheart should be about personal achievement.

The promotion method you suggested would work wonderful for an orc clan or a mercenary group that is a bit more... "fighty".

making a trail for them to pass is a briliant idea
tho i beleve the trail shud be based on the spesivic character

il take my worgen rogue for instance

he coud compleat his trail by stealing a certain object or set up a raid for the object ( thus testing his Dm skills or let some one show him the ropes )

or a mage give a demonstration of his arcane knolage


as for the badges this is a good idea and i realy love it
a character that has many badges woud look like he has done and seen alot with the guild and thus be more then a greenhorn

the badge part is good as it can show what you done more or less in the guild no matter rank, and the promotion can be hard to do as the easiest promotion is fighting (dont fit the guild if you ask me) or like a test of knowledge of some sort, one way is just having like a rp cermony when someone is getting promoted

Thank you two for your input!

I was thinking along the lines of a personalized test as well. The brave-to-be themselves would be asked to suggest a challenge for them to complete.

Right ..So .I like the poetic idea.But poetic licence usually is open to interpretation.Great idea but from  my last year on DB RP.I'm finding that I have to be as subtle as a drunken dwarf with a jack-hammer to get any and all points across to other RPers.
Then again this may be just me time will tell.

I like the trial idea.Am I the only one who instantly went to the boulder chase from Indiana Jones XD?  

We should Keep  Braveheart  cause as we all know it's awesome.Even saying the word gets you pumped
I am in favour of Dragonheart  too and Lionheart ...Damn so many  film references .

Arasali wrote:I'm finding that I have to be as subtle as a drunken dwarf with a jack-hammer to get any and all points across to other RPers.

I'm not doing this to please "other RPers". I'm looking for what works for me and my guild.
If some outsider doesn't like it, they can suck it.

And from the feedback so far, the poetic approach is overwhelmingly more popular. So it's likely we'll take it in that direction.

Poet's corner it is